Posting to give reference for my law report.
'Wait a second, you would have nuked Skyman for in essence, repeatedly killing himself? Or for jumping back on his killers after he revives trying to finish them off?'
Well, that's why he hasn't been nuked. I don't know what to make of his actions, to be honest. He's level bashing himself. But I'll say this... I'm not going to get on to someone for double tapping him, when he just throws himself into it.
And I must say that since they had no prior warnings, even a short suspension would have sufficed for Dvalin and Panayoti, as out of the myriad of Durms who claim ignorance, they're the most believeable.
Wait a second, you would have nuked Skyman for in essence, repeatedly killing himself? Or for jumping back on his killers after he revives trying to finish them off?
Just what exactly is nukeworthy about Skyman dying dozens of times?
Wow Tulkas. . . wow
I have also been displeased with Skyman, who has taken death to a new, dishonorable level.
ROTFL easy fix return deaths to normal and pkilling becomes less rampent. Duh?! Happy mudding.
I am going to make two comments. One that addresses the ruling of 'bug' and one that addresses mud etiquette.
To be a bug, or not to be a bug:
I thought it was a bug :)
I imprisoned Dvalin and Panayoti, expecting to deal with them harshly. Seeing as neither had anything major on the warning screen, I was preparing for lengthy suspensions.
I emailed Aule about the bug, and that spawned conversation.
We all agree this walks a close line, but there are 2 truths that limit this from being a bug, and reduce it to a lockup that should probably be nerfed:
1. The killing did not bypass lawsys, so the death will be reimbursed through the courthouse just like normal.
2. The victim must follow someone to the cell, without initiating combat. It requires going there under the pretense of friendship. That same scenario is available in many other places in the game, and this is one of the least convenient.
With these two things in mind the powers decided that this did not constitute bug abuse. I believe both of those points are valid. The issue where I differ is this that I believe the exit did not work properly. You can look at it the other way, however, and say, The entrance to the courthouse _did_ work properly and prevented combative players from entering.
Examining all of these factors resulted in a declaration that this was not bug abuse. However, just like with all lockups, it is considered harassment to lead newbies there.
Now on to Mud etiquette:
This is where I move from facts to personal opinion. Powers have the duty to judge whether or not players are playing in the spirit of the game. Pushing the rules to the point of hurting the gaming atmosphere of others can be just as bad as flatly breaking rules.
This is why Exhalev believes he was nuked without cause. This is why I am very disappointed in players that log on an alt for 60 seconds to make a quick kill and log their other character back on. This is why I am dissapointed in Exhalev, Kvalin and Panayoti for pushing the system to 'test' if something is a bug or not. This is also why I am disappointed in Haarni and Korath for breaking RP to follow known enemies into what could only be trouble. In fact, I don't doubt for a minute that Haarni is getting the exact controversy he wanted when he went into that room. I have also been displeased with Skyman, who has taken death to a new, dishonorable level. If it were not in conjunction with a guild war, I would have nuked him a long time ago, especially since now he has turned in a law report aobut doubletapping. These things add up, and ask Exhalev, it is not fun when it adds up to nuking.
In summary, this is not a big deal. The players that died followed willfully. It will be handled by the courthouse, and will most likely be reimbursed for their loss. It is not a bug, which is both a difficult decision, and an unpopular one. The lockup will be evaluated for nerfing, however, and it will probably be altered in some way in the near future. My only suggestion for those of you worried about having this affect you in some way: don't blindly agree to follow enemies. (duh!?!)
Happy Mudding!
*chuckles
Nuke you or tell you to join Durms.
I'd like to pose a question to you.
If I did this, what do you think Tulkas would have done?
I'm as neutral as anyone, and I agree that it's a bug, and was abused here. Furthermore, the abusers were aware that it was a bug in need of inspection and action by Valinor. Furthermore, the people who attempted to derail the conversation by hinting that there's a secret escape hatch (there's not) really need to examine their loyalties. Either you're for the game and its improvement or you're an abuser.
I think they intend to change it as well - they just don't believe its use is bug abuse - which I don't get.
Damn it Orcoron, don't go posting my password on the log page!
...
You'll regret this.
For the same reason, they also changed every single ER garrison (about a dozen of them) by moving the ER courthouse into an adjacent room.
You know they changed the shadow sword quest because of this same thing. so why is this not a bug and that was? I'm not saying favoritism is being involved, retardation could also be a plausable reason.
HP:230 EP:230 > say UOIERYI
You say in Westron: UOIERYI
HP:230 EP:230 > e
You can't go that way!
damn it Manni! :P
Where the fuck is rauko?
What I mean Manni, is that by using the term lockup you imply that your guildmates innocently took any enemy into a lock room that coincidentally happened to be a bug. Rather than your guildmates abused a bug to trap a person in a room.
If there was a weird error in the code and you could type 'say UOIERYI' and that would cause anyone in the room to become stuck and unable to move, is it a lockup?
This is also the worst kind of bug abuse. It's not something you can abuse to only benifit yourself, like a gold or an experience bug. It's not a funny little quirk that neither harms nor benifits anyone. It's a bug where the only use possible is to harm another player.
Fine, simple solution...
Code it so the jailor locks you in if your in combat.
The 'bug' is now solved and we have a cool new feature.
Scroll down and read my first comment all the way at the bottom of the page. I think it's a bug.
What makes it a bug is not whether or not it's benificial or detrimental to anyone or anything. What makes it a bug is that the room is acting contrary to the way it was designed to act.
The room was made many years before the changes to courthouses made it impossible to enter in combat. The room was designed to be entered and left at will. When the change was made there was an oversight made which left this room broken. That is what makes it a bug.
Ok, if one agrees to that this is no bug, then one has to. I can see that ok, if you are stupid to follow an enemy into the room and get locked up, sure thing, you have yourself to blame.
But still! Say that you are in a situation that the guy you follow in the party is no known enemy of yours, but someone that in the past have treated you well that suddenly decides to get you dead. Well, then this is a great place todo it at and you can basically do nothing about it.
That second thing is what makes me want to label it a bug. Or at least change the room so that one can't fight in there.
just my two cents.
OK Manni, I get that you need to cast your guild in the best possible light but for the sake of your own credibility, give it up.
This is not a lock-up. There is no door to lock. The only thing keeping anyone in the room is a mistake that accidentally put a room in the game where the only exit was a courthouse. It's not a lockup it's a bug. It's not a feature, it's a bug.
I kinda agree that I figured it'd end up being labeled a bug. It's a hard lockup to have an opportunity to use, but pretty vicious when you're able to in a case like this.
Hear-ye?
Sounds like we have a town crier :)
Wait, is that the sobs of the pro-nuke crowd?
That's fucking appauling. It IS a bug. The fucking room isn't supposed to work that way it was just overlooked when they made the changes to courthouses. I mean I'm used to having some serious dumbfucks run this game, but my God the past 6 months have been unbelievable.
^ (OOC) Tulkas: Hear ye, Hear ye... the powers have
conferred on the linhir cell and ready to make a ruling
^ (OOC) Tulkas: It is not a bug. Lawsys applies. So, do not follow a
known enemy into the cell unless you want to go toe to toe with him
or her.
Well, I suppose this simplifies this thread. In the future when there are debatable tactics, we'll err further on the side of caution in asking Valinor if those tactics are of dubious legality. We've done this in the past with the Rage and with multiple attacks in a day and both times it's been an effective way to get an answer. I still believe having bug fixes added to dev list or updates would be a great way for making things like this more clear so that Nicuramar's servers don't get blasted with flame threads.
Um, they're already off the hook Pallasch.
We can only hope Tulkas gets it right this time, and doesn't let people cloud his judgment.
Cheating as an Ainur, no Durm has every been guilty for that right?:P
Haarni is nuked for a seperate thing but yes it boggles the mind. I figured the heirarchy of things you shouldn't do on the MUD went something like: Cheating as an Ainu > Bug Abuse > RL harassment > gold transfer > botting > Harassment > spree killing > Comm violations.
So Haarni is nuked, but others arent!?
Yeah, Orcoron, I didn't wanna shoot him. I just pulled this trigger and this gun went totally crazy, I swear.
Hahahaha!
'OK, well with the benefit of a day of hindsight on all this, there's some blame to be had on our part.'
Some blame? Like, just a little? Certainly it wasn't 100% Panayoti and Dvalin's fault for abusing a known bug. They definitely didn't know it was a bug and then play acting stupid to get off.
Yeah, I guess if we want to be big old meanies, some section of a part of the blame could be aportioned to Durms.
OK, well with the benefit of a day of hindsight on all this, there's some blame to be had on our part. We should've done a more thorough investigation of whether or not it wa a bug before we used it. If you scroll down to those tells Panayoti and I exchanged, those happened very quickly and were literally right as Haarni invited Panayoti and then as Panayoti invited Haarni, about 20 seconds before this all happened.
But at the same time, I really honestly believe that Panayoti thought it was not a bug. I know Panayoti very well and I've talked to him many many times over the course of the past year, and he's never lied to me or deceived me at all. That's why I'm backing him 100% on this.
However, it was a bug and that means those involved should be punished. So no matter what happens to Panayoti or Dvalin or me, there should be some way that the immortals let us know when there's an abusable bug that's no longer snooplogged, but is in the process of being fixed. That would clear up any future miscommunications of this sort.
So you're saying if its the first time someone commits first degree murder or some shit like that IRL, they should get off with nothing? :P Yes I know MUD != IRL, but cheating is cheating, regardless of whether or not you knew it was wrong and whether or not it was your first time doing it.
Refer down to what I said about 1st time offenders...
Ok, when I read this is so obviously a bug. But why is Haarni nuked and not the others. I read that it is because of botting, but... The BUGABUSE?
I just can't think that Tulkas would let this pass.
oh.. and being dumb doesn't mean you should receive special treatment, unless of course you actually qualify as being mentally handicapped.
Dvalin is in Rivers End Minimum Security Prison at Cell Block A.
Panayoti is in Rivers End Minimum Security Prison at Cell Block A.
Mirnac, they do house a lot of those types.. But yes, I do wonder who still believes Manni's shit. He honestly needs to be a politician cause he'd be damn successful.
Seriously is anyone buying Manni's 'If i play dumb and act like durms house the dumbest people in this univers we will get of the hook from bugabuse'?
Yeah, because, you know, Exhalev abusing that bug was a first time offense. That guy had a stellar record up until that incident! *roll*
True, Manni. I say we start the future now. Nuke em!
I think Tulkas is generally more forgiving of first time offenses than some other PoLs have been. I think that extends to everyone, without favoritism.
In the future, I think it would be nice to have abusable bugs yet to be fixed (but past snooplog stage) on updates or dev list as an unfixed bugs that are identified not as features of the game, but as bugs.
Legend haarni. nuff said
I agree.. When Osse and Draugluin was around, ALOT of people got nuked.. just for some lame reason as well.
Worst PoL ever.... Unless you're a Durm.
Tulkas is utterly pathetic. All I have to say.
Uh, Tulkas said specifically that it was a bug. Thanks for playing, though.
Mute asked me to post for him (not my opinion):
'If this lockup is a bug, it would have been changed after
the last highly publicized incident with it. To change the room to
not lock, would be a 30 second change that any ainur can make. The
fact that it was not changed after the last use, and is still not
changed, and has never been mentioned as a bug by any immortals,
means that it is indeed not a bug. The best thing I can say to the
people that have died here, is dont be an idiot and follow an enemy
into a lock.'
I agree with Lobo, the ainurs should deal with them!
Too much Prison break for Alkath!
He's in Fox Rivers, eh? I hear he went there to break his brother out... apparently the goverment framed his brother, whom now is waiting for his execution.
Haarni is at Rivers End Minimum Security Prison at Cell Block A. in the room A Dingy Cell.
I won't read all those comments. Obvious bug abuse, and should be dealt harshly. That's something i wouldn't expect panayoti to do. Sad.
Haarni, I logged on my mortal AFTER Malorian had been suspended for 60 days. I was trying to get my Maia nuked. Ironically, he suspended Malorian for 14 days then which turned my 60 into a 14 :P
And Tiamat, no, it was almost a year ago.
Date: 24. Feb, 2008, 18:46:43 By: Tarquin
oh girrick, your ignorance is so... cute
I think he's gay :/
Yeah, I didn't know that you couldn't enter if you weren't being hunted.
YOu don't need anyone in the courthouse.
You can't enter courthouses in combat, and this room is BEHIND a courthouse, so the only way it is through it... is that so hard to grasp?:P
Tell log from Panayoti's perspective:
You tell Manni: is killing in the room west of the lin courthouse considered bug abuse?
Manni tells you: why, because you cant leave?
You tell Manni: yeah
Manni tells you: can you even attack there?
You tell Manni: yeah, exhalev did that that, they didnt do anything to him
Manni tells you: youd need 2 people to attack, then 1 to go east
Manni tells you: and then the guy would be locked
Manni tells you: makes sense to me
Apparently you don't need anyone to stand in the courthouse... Anyway, I didn't hear about this until Panayoti told me about it.
Haha Manni, who the fuck honestly believes all this blatant shit that you constantly spit out of your mouth is beyond me.
Do you honestly expect anything less from him?
See that was silly Malorian. You can't give him the 'Durr I was just too dumb to know' excuse. They all knew full well it was a bug and was considered abuse. They also figured they'd probably get away with it because Exhalev did. I find it highly incredulous for Manni to act as though he was absolutely ignorant about this until today.
Did you finish your newbie project? Has it been implemented yet?
I think thats probably the most intelligent thing i've ever heard Malorian say.
By the way, I thought it was illegal for newbie ainur to play there Mortal alts, thats where your suspension reasons lay?
You know, one time I felt like helping out Valinor, made an alt and immort-applied. I got accepted, worked on my newbie project for a couple days, but then realized that I didn't have the RL time to continue. I told Tulkas this, and asked if he could demort me and I would remort in the Summer. He said no, I wouldn't be accepted again, so I said that I'd tough it out and finish my newbie project. The next day I logged on, and what do you know, Malorian was suspended 60 days.
Manni, cut the shit please. Panayoti knew this was bug abuse, and if he didn't he's an idiot. It's one thing that Exhalev wasn't nuked, which personally I think is bullshit, but no one cares that I or most people think that. It doesn't matter that Haarni joined Panayoti's party. The truth is, Panayoti abused a known bug to kill.
Tulkas, this isn't a fair MUD, and we all know that; but when things happen like Orcoron and Quiauh being suspended, (what was it 14 days?) when Orcoron was simply teasing and Quiauh was making RL threats, me getting suspended 60 days for 'getting on Tulkas' nerves', and other things, how the hell can no one get punished for this obvious bug abuse? Exhalev actually ADVISED Durms to use it, and they did. If this would help BKd, so what? Last time I checked, BKd hasn't bug abused in this war. A couple of BKd's have MPed, but so do Durms and it is obvious that MPing is not punishable anymore. But BLATANT, KNOWING, and OPEN bug abuse is.
Well I can't find a copy paste of it but I'm sure Manni has been involved in a conversation about this before.
Oh man, I just saw Manni's tell at the end..ok give me one minute.
I feel for your position Manni, it can't be easy. But at least come up with a plausible line. Something that people might believe.
And more importantly, can't kill me without cheating/using 5:)
I agree with Haarni :P
Yeah, I mean getting nuked wouldnt be a huge issue. Panayoti would have a new level 19 within 36 hours. But I really don't feel that it's warranted.
And Manni, I could'nt care less if anyone gets/does'nt get nuked. I just enjoy publicising the fact your guild is full of cheaters:P
Panayoti has been around for a pretty long while, he knows exactly what the rules are. You protect all your newbies with the 'but he doesn't know' bullshit, with all the publicity it got on here last time - Panayoti knew exactly what he was doing. Dvalin yeah, maybe hes the innocent party in this, like Klardin last time - hes just helping his guildmate.
It's ironic seeing two botters (Skyman and Haarni) leading the charge for nuking a guy who honestly thought this room was OK to use as a lockup.
NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE
[new] Date: 24. Feb, 2008, 20:30:11 By: Kilin
'There should be more things like this in the mud, it keeps people whining and calling each other noobs.'
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
LMAO...
This log was funny, the comments even funnier!
There should be more things like this in the mud, it keeps people whining and calling each other noobs.
Razey...this is why we can't have nice things.
*lawls*
Girrick, don't let me catch you lolling around here. We lawl. Got it?
LOL @ DELKIN
:p
[new] Date: 24. Feb, 2008, 18:47:00 By: Tlaloc
If I were PoL I would nuke Panayoti for bug abuse, investigate Exhalev for instigating bug abuse and if found guilty nuke him too and warn you, Manni, for instigating bug abuse too.
I'd also nuke half Durmanhoth and BKD for law report abuse but I'm not PoL:P
TLALOC FO' PRESIDENT!!
Revealing alts?
MULTIPLAY!!!!!!
Ok.
Date: 24. Feb, 2008, 19:09:16 By: Evendim
This is going to be a firestorm. I'm going to the store to get some popcorn now. :)
Take me with you :)
'Plus, Last time I checked, Exhalev had the same deal and didn't get nuked or anything.
Why should I?'
OMG Nuke this guy just for being the dumbest fuck on the planet. ONLY Reason Exhalev got away with it was because he was the first todo it. Before him this wasnt a known trap. After he did and also log was posted everyone knew, or atleast should know. And if Ex hadnt done it you wouldnt ever managed to figure it out. So therfor you should be nuked because you knew what would happend and that it was a certain deathtrap.
This is going to be a firestorm. I'm going to the store to get some popcorn now. :)
I'd just like again to state that my BKD alt hasn't logged in since Haarni has been back. So how is this MP? Haarni was attacking Durms before my alt joined BKD, and no doubt is still hitlisted - so you want me to stop attacking, and take the deaths?:P
I don't really like Tlaloc's typist, but it seems like he'd make a great PoL. Tlaloc for PoL 2008! If you people are too blind to know that plenty of people on both sides of this war deserve to be nuked (although one side deserves it a lot more than the other..), well then.. help suicide or something?
Aha, so you piss off 2 characters but you want such a rule so you can get away with it? No way.
After reading that comment, I'm beginning to understand why you're not PoL, Tlaloc.
Annnyway, if we had a strict 'one hostile character per war' rule, I think Gizmalin is the only one who might be affected and he was hitlisted in BkD well before this conflict began. Skyman, Brubaker, and Haarni have all initiated things with multiple characters since the outset of the conflict.
[new] Date: 24. Feb, 2008, 18:43:54 By: Manni
For the number of newbies that Haarni has baked and glassed, this is a bit of karma coming back to bite him. If I were PoL yeah I might warn Panayoti for it. But sometimes it's worth a warning to kill someone.
I glassed Erest once, who was a Durm applicant and has been around on this game for longer than me - so hardly a 'newbie'. I've only ever used oven/glass too kill when I've been attempted.
You should all suicide and get over it.
If I were PoL I would nuke Panayoti for bug abuse, investigate Exhalev for instigating bug abuse and if found guilty nuke him too and warn you, Manni, for instigating bug abuse too.
I'd also nuke half Durmanhoth and BKD for law report abuse but I'm not PoL:P
oh girrick, your ignorance is so... cute
Tlaloc, Panayoti's knowledge of the situation was Exhalev telling him that he did this to someone and wasn't punished for it.
Regardless of what goes on in this thread, the ball is in Tulkas's court and all our bickering here won't do much about that. :)
For the number of newbies that Haarni has baked and glassed, this is a bit of karma coming back to bite him. If I were PoL yeah I might warn Panayoti for it. But sometimes it's worth a warning to kill someone.
Warnings are given to warn, Manni. A warning says 'This is bad, don't do it'. If the person doing it knows it is bad, obviously warnings didn't work. As my comment below says, Panayoti broke point 5 of help rules and half of help bugabuse. Such things have been nukable for years.
Faris once told me he found an elf in SG which gave 1k gold and 100k exp. He reported it and kept killing it. Melkor told him 'Stop killing it until we fix it' and he responded 'I'm gonna kill it until you remove it' and killed the elf again. Then there was a mushroom.
In Panayoti's case it is even worse than breaking the rules - it's abusing the rules, being well aware of the situation.
rotfl, no communication. If you're too stupid to realize this is bug abuse without there being a sign reading 'WARNING! DO NOT LEAD PEOPLE TO THIS ROOM FOR PK AS THE VICTIM CANNOT ESCAPE AND ITS A BUG' then you should go kill yourself. Or buy some common sense or something.
I'm sure Tulkas will say 'It was Haarni's fault for joining his enemy's party!' like that somehow absolves them of abusing a broken feature of the mud.
Four idiots shining bright in this one.
TIPz0rx:
Don't join enemies parties...*cough cough* Tarquin was *cough* an example *cough cough*
Haarni, nothing against you, but that wasn't very smart *scratches his head* :)
Maybe it was fixed with a huntbreak. But the bottom line is that there was no communication about it being a bug or if it were a bug whether or not it was fixed. If it's a bug and nothing was fixed, then that's what warnings are for. But as far as Valinor priorities, inescapable lockups, if they are bugs and fixable with 1 line of code (which this is), would tend to be worked on before things like
02/12/08 - Ghorin:
A new command has been added for emptying drinks. Just
'empty <drink>' if you are in desperate need of an empty
bottle.
and
02/17/08 - Ghorin:
Prop 1478 has been implemented: If you are fighting on
pelennor with another player's army, and your opponent
decides to rertreat, you will gain a fraction of the
experience he lost for retreating.
Ok.. Panayoti removed his log, but I feel like I should post my comment from there here as well:
Panayoti wanted me to say this for him, as he's comment blocked:
'Yes I bug abused, I am going to mail Tulkas and ask for him to nuke me ASAP. Actually, you should hardban all of Lebanon, and even everyone that comes from Lebanon (like Zoso and Bared). Yes, this is actually me asking Alkath to post this. Look, I can speak Lebanese: Kifac?'
I just did what i was asked to :P
We agreed that the insult at the end of the log wasn't productive...
Panayoti was mostly posting so people could see what happened before this because he can't comment... I'll post all that from his log here, minus the insult at the end. From Panayoti's log:
Haarni invited you to join his party.
You invited Haarni to join your party.
(HAR)HP:225 EP:152> Haarni joins your party.
You say to your party: why'd you do that
You say to your party: i can just kill you
You say to your party: lock you up
Party say from Haarni: doubt it:P
You say to your party: seriously?
Party say from Haarni: seriously.
The most hilarious thing in this log is how Haarni joins my party.
Plus, Last time I checked, Exhalev had the same deal and didn't get nuked or anything.
Why should I?
P.S: I can't comment, I'm blocked
It doesn't matter if someone is deserves to die or not, bug abuse is bug abuse. Manni, I know a lot of your members are stupid but honestly how can they not realize that's bug abuse AFTER its been done already and AFTER Tulkas himself said on the comm it WAS bug abuse? For those that weren't logged on at the time of that comm discussion, this was Tulkas' argument: Yes, Exhalev DID bug abuse, but if he nuked Exhalev then he would be doing BkD a favour because they would love to see him nuked. Only one thing to say to that: wtf?
Also, I know you spew a lot of bullshit but right now it's just pointless. If this was BkD leading a durm you'd be complaining about how they deserve a nuke. I know you're just sticking up for your members but really, if they were my members I'd know they still deserve that nuke for blatant bug abuse.
From 'help rules'
'5. BugAbuse. If you find a bug, or think you might have found a
bug, report it. The exploitation of a bug will not be tolerated.'
This means: If you find a bug, report it and stop using it.
From 'help bugabuse'
'We look very harshly upon people who take advantage of bugs. Any bug,
reported or not, that you use to benefit your character is against the
rules and may result in the deletion of that character.'
So, Panayoti clearly knew what he was doing and bug abused. The help files say he has to be punished.
Manni, you of all people should know that Valinor can not repair bugs immediately and that balance issues such as this room need thorough repairing. In the meantime mortals are not supposed to abuse them.
His comment at the end was a bit suspicious... thats why he removed, i personally think...
Soo. Anyone saw the Panayoti posted the same log but from his perspective and said some stupid thing at the end but then removed it. WHYYYYYYY WOULD HE DO THAT OMG PHAT RIDDLE!
That's entirely possible... We didn't get the message on that, though. I think the right thing for Valinor to do would be to make the room no_attack just like a courthouse in the interim, or add a 'flee' command like Haarni tried. Hell who knows, maybe they did and Haarni didn't get it right. There would be no balance issue with making a huntbreak there because you can't even get there from the rest of the MUD if you're in combat.
A cheap short is leading a party member over glass/locking them/taking them to a backhunt etc...
This is outright cheating:P
True. I bet he was told that it was a bug and not to use it until it gets fixed.
As I understand it, Exhalev did this, talked to an ainu about it, and was not punished for it... At least that's what he told us.
So if he talked to an ainu about it and it was a bug, it should have been fixed. If it wasn't a bug, then it wouldn't have been fixed. Personally I think it's a bug and worth reporting again because it wasn't fixed the first time.
Was this a cheap shot? Sure. But Haarni's not known for fighting clean fights either. We wouldn't pull this kind of thing on someone who didn't deserve it.
So, Manni, are you guilty or is Exhalev guilty?
Obviously these two newbies don't understand the deal behind this, so maybe they shouldn't be punished? But surely Exhalev for -teaching- this to members of the guild?