Formid is a fucking idiot. No one will read all that shit. And with that, I close this thread.
[new] Date: 10. Dec, 2008, 12:15:56 By: Tevildo
The question isn't really whether a close-knit ER community developed prior to or during the BP era. It's whether such a community could possibly exist in an environment which didn't also drive away casuals and newbies. Even if the answer's no, it would still be hard to defend that tradeoff as a game design decision.
Actually, well before the borders opened, the ER faction was by far the most close knit, newbie friendly side in the game.
Hell, the entire faction was probably more close knit and friendly than most guilds are internally. People would help lowbies out, point out where was appropriate for their level, grab them gear. There was almost never anything on the auction house because people would just go and grab a lowbie who asked for something (questing a relatively newbie friendly weapon didn't take long) a weapon (often they would ask where they would get a weapon and would get a set of damn good gear 5 minutes later). I think I once asked where I could get some gear for my level when I was levelling up and someone (I don't remember who) picked me up the best non unique/semi items the ER's had at that point for me to go pelt with less than 5 minutes later. I asked how much they wanted for it and they were surprised, saying, 'nah, just help out others when you get higher level'. Thats pretty much how everyone was.
BP's broke that a bit to be honest but not because of what BP's were. It caused a constant stream of wankers create ER chars and level up purely to be able to grief other ER's with almost zero repercussions because ER's were completely lawless (bounties never really worked that well because of the legion power points required and these guys checked who was on using their FR chars and then jumped on their ER for a grand total of about 4 minutes to kill some unsuspecting lowbie, which meant bountyhunters had to either sit underneath the riots inn for hours or get insanely lucky). The kind of idiots who found it fun to play both sides at the same time (you experience this these days from the same people/kind of people during guild wars).
This in turn fractured the up coming lowbies who had previously been helped by the community which was now more concerned with trying to prevent the FR's taking over the entire map and locking us in Harondor/Far Harad (Yes some people on the ER side did the same, but it was relatively a minority, they were just quite active at certain times, a lot of the times the map got taken over my Athin or the 1-2 SoU who were on they actually just started off by taking back the ER lands, then with zero resistance to the 2 wizards, they'd simply carry on) and trying to nail the 'Riot ERs' to stop them killing lowbies. We no longer had time to help them out as we were constantly being hunted ourselves, regardless of whether we had killed anyone or not. Yeah I'll admit I killed some people, quite a lot actually, almost always solo, almost always someone of my own level or higher. This apparently justified having 5-10 man bangs come after me in response. I'm not bitter about the bangs, I dodged my fair share of them and could handle it. I did object to those same bangs hitting the level 10-15's in Near Harad. I know that some ER's did the same, I never agreed with that and never took part, neither did a lot of us. There were wrongs on both sides.
Back to the lowbie point anyways, then after all that, if by some amazing reason the lowbie managed to stay quite nice and levelled up to level 10 (after dealing with riots and less than usual helpful higher levels) and be capable of going to Near Harad, the first time he/she stepped foot in Near Harad an assassin (Kalas, Brubaker, Whineytou, Daywanker et al) would probably come along and kill them within 5-10 minutes, this would repeat until the assassin was either chased off or the lowbie got fed up and hid in Far Harad again.
I also remember Daywankers favourite tactic of sitting underneath the Inn in Kadar at non peak times (when most of the ER raiders weren't on), with the innkeeper dead and killing anyone who logged on there, giving people about 10 seconds to react and try to break/run to the auction house (unarmoured, no healing) whereon if they ran to the auction he would multiplay and have them chased out by being attacked by one of the 'Riot ERs'. (Don't even try to deny it, you were eventually nuked for doing it to one of my alts).
Bitter, me? Yeah why not, a small group of absolute wankers with zero interest in anyone except themselves managed to ruin a great community (and continues to do so to the mud).
Say what you like about people like Vildoran and a lot of the other notorious killers, but they tended not to pick on characters who didn't know they were coming (or at least not frequently)
I agree with the last two comments.
Best two man pking combination of all time? You're a fucking idiot.
It wasnt that bad, even for the non-pkers. it made the T2T feel like it was in war, which it is ment to be. it got annoying, but there were arguments for both sides.
I seem to recall my mud break coinciding with about a month after BPs were introduced. I wasn't involved at all in PK back then, and BPs forced me to stay in West Arda :(.
You can't force rampant PK on everyone, you'll lose all the questers and RPers.
The question isn't really whether a close-knit ER community developed prior to or during the BP era. It's whether such a community could possibly exist in an environment which didn't also drive away casuals and newbies. Even if the answer's no, it would still be hard to defend that tradeoff as a game design decision.
I guess you're right, regarding those who just retook BPs and didn't actively hunt players.. being a non-raider myself I only ever saw the actual war parties.
No Tash, only very SELECT individuals were actually bloodthirsty, but this spilled into the general populace pretty fast on both sides and when people were killed by these people, it in turn made them join in. There were still many people who would only go out and try to reclaim the BP's to keep those who didn't care about the system safe from gangbangs.
'The FRs didn't care as much about taking BPs, etc, so a lot of the time, BPs were in ER hands.'
Whose hands the warscape was in depended on the time of day. FRs were just as bloodthirsty as ERs, there were just less of us for them to target. When they could, they did.
'The Battlepoints got rid of most of the guild idler scum and created skilled players.'
No doubt it created a few skilled players - those who joined during the battlepoint era.
'...the Battlepoints created Norre/Ravathir. They brought Nasira back to life....The loyalty of the ER at that time was incomparable to anything we have seen on the MUD.'
'When they introduced the BP's they both managed to help create a fantastic ER community'
These are incorrect. Battlepoints had nothing to do with the closeness of the ER community. That was well in place long before the borders were opened. If anything, I would say the BPs harmed it. People were working together more often but there were more insults flung back and forth and there was an increase in infighting as well, though that was usually dealt with swiftly.
Not to mention the fact the 'stay in the green' safety didn't occur until Battlepoints were already on their deathbed.
Daywalker, the problem was like you said the ER's were more aggressive and more organized, mostly because the PK-focused people seemed to play them more. The FRs didn't care as much about taking BPs, etc, so a lot of the time, BPs were in ER hands.
Anyways, a game where you login and see the board all red and makes people want to just log off so they don't die is a BAD idea.
Just because your bored of solo playing or questing, don't fucking force that view onto others. Games should always be about freedome to choose your playstyle, some people liked BP's some liked it for a week and then grew tired of it and some hated it from the start. Because it limited the way you could play extremely hard.
Myrddin, yeah, but if you stay on the green area, you can't get attacked. So its not that critical.
Yes, if you wanted to do something good, you had to pick a party and conquer the land. There goes the playing together.
'If you play quietly and don't disturb the big bad guys, they wont target you (useless fines).'
Exactly the point. You just slit your own throat in terms of any argument supporting the whole battlepoint shitstem. Nobody had to worry about fines, nobody had to offend anybody to get pk'd. It was just shooting ducks.
You can do a reasonably good job of catering to everyone by providing varied content and not implementing stuff that screws the majority. Simple as that.
They seemed to have found that for many years Laefang. In 95, it was almost impossible to find 15 people on at once ever. Then around 2000, it was nearly impossible to find anything UNDER 40, if it was something was wrong with connections or something and peak times brought in at minimum a hundred. Now, if they hit 100 (at least when I play) its a big deal again. There was a time that the system was rocking hard and was cutting edge and fun for just about everyone.
Well Rav take care and good luck. You were a crazy pk orientated american with an unhealthy obsession for mountain dew from what i remember but still a good laugh.
As for the whole discussion that followed, well some people use t2t as escapism, enjoy the whole lotr feel to it and wandering round in forests/slowly taking in new quests and meeting people. Others i guess power play a bit more, think of advantages every new command/add-action gives and are constantly updating clients etc to reduce wasting time. When they introduced the BP's they both managed to help create a fantastic ER community which lets face it the free races had a very hard time competing with and also nearly eliminated solo play in the more difficult areas for those who didn't enjoy testing their knowledge and skills against others.
There's arguments going both ways as to whether it was a good or bad move and it'll depend alot on your playstyle and the people you group with.
As for Rav and the whole herkie business, he had alot of spare time and tried to learn as much as he could. His view on the game might not have been the same as everyone elses but there's a point where running the same quests again isn't fun anymore and the only way to push your character to the limit is to compete with other people. Again forcing your playstyle on other people with pk's is debatable but your playing in a war torn senario so a little danger in my opinion isn't a bad thing and there's plenty of huntbreaks to be used.
Anyway it's all pretty inconsequential, it's is after all a game and people will always play it to the extent of it's limits. You can dumb it down and lose players/ inhibit pk's and lose players or cater for the people who have the most time and lose the casuals. There really doesn't seem to be a way to please everyone.
*mush stuff* Later man, we had a -lot- of great times in durms and GB, if you come back, make an uruk so we can rick roll the nubs of arda again, you know how I feel about you, no need to get sentimental, hopefully you return because I rather enjoyed all the QQing you caused by pking people and them bitching about you, really great stuff
Way to completely misinterpret what Fofester said. You butchered that one bad.
Tireless, I am Rogue :P
Fofester, you are incorrect.
If you have 2 people after you, you have done something to provoke them. Its your own fault.
I have never killed someone, unless contracted (or mordor), who has never done anything bad to me.
If you play quietly and don't disturb the big bad guys, they wont target you (useless fines).
Or if you do, here is a confirmation of my previous post, you need a guild, a friend or a party to take the attackers down. There you go, you get socialized over a reason.
No, you need to allow players to be able to accomplish a lot by themselves. Like Fofester said, if you had to rely on someone EVERY time you were on, many wouldn't even bother playing. Of course, the very best items like MELS or something should require more people and preparation, and it does. However, you should be able to quest a decent set of gear and go golding alone like it is right now.
I totally agree with Daywalker's last comment.
LVL19/ASS/DEM LFG
Nobody said a solo player should be able to get the best gear. Fact of the matter is, you destroy the game for the solo quester or explorer, you destroy the game for a vast majority of the MUD. Nobody wants to have to find 2 other people every time they want to go out and do some quests.
Actually, I disagree with you guys.
What Tevildo said: The game went bad for solo quester.
It should go bad for the solo quester!! You can't let a solo player get the best items in the game. If one man can do it, why would a party go for the quest, unless bored?
Tevildo, i know you feel alone in your rotting guild, but its your sole problem if you can't find people willing to move their ass.
This game NEEEEEEDS quests that take more than 2-3 people to complete. Unsoloable quests with rewards better than the general ones. Why? To make people play together.
BPs were a good thing. It made people need each other, depend on each other. Every successful game masters understand that if a player goes solo, they can't get all the game's best.
How many of you have wiped out Mordor solo and then what, weapons everyone has, worthless at Alexa(200-500g), boredom.
Anyone remembers when Mordor was actually scary? When SoU and Udungul and FRA and even Durmanhoth were almost constantly inside mordor checking for questers? We used to make 1-2 parties 5 players each to go to mordor, bash gates.. It was a challenge.
Oh yeah, Tevildo, that totally sucked ass and was absolute lunacy.
Didn't Draugluin change the Valinor voting system so his vote counted something like 500% more than the other various Overlords of Theme, Balance, etc.?
Pounder pretty much has it. What really pulls it all together and crystallizes it as an example of bad planning was a comment Draug made, which went very much like this: 'You players only see a small portion of what was really planned. It would have all been balanced and playable and everyone would have enjoyed it if we'd pulled off the whole thing.' In other words, they put in a half-assed yet sweeping game change as a tribute to what could have been.
Koz: my issue isn't with fade-->camo so much as with fade-->nothing for two years-->evade.
Etrius, I honestly don't have a problem with people putting something in the game that just didn't work out. The problem many upon many people had was that even with massive percentages of the people leaving and indicating that this was detrimental to the game, he amoung others were most visibly against changing/correcting/adjusting the system or removing it and trying to reimplement it at a later time with better testing. There have been other things that just didn't work out, and they were pulled. The problem with BP's were that they were so bad and affected so many people adversely that it should have been taken out immediately until a better plan was put in place.
A general thought is, if you are reactively trying to fix a major change that is put in on a very high frequency, it is best to take the change out until you can determine various facts of what is doing what and answer a few questions:
What was intended? (RP?, PVP and RP combined?)
What actually happened? (Massive PVP, loss of other playstyles)
Is the whole change causing the issues? (No, only BP system is bad)
If not, which sections or major changes are causing issues? (BPs)
What changes can actually be left in? (ER professions, ER lands)
What changes have positive value? (See above, more variety, more areas to explore, more uniqueness = less loss of good code).
Take those questions, and if you quickly look at them or in fact ask the players them, you could have had where arda is now basically, after very little bloodshed and playerbase loss. It would have cut the amount of damage as well.
Anyways, I am still bored at work, let me know what you guys think. :)
I dunno, he was the guy in charge, wasn't he? And the guy in charge takes responsibility for the shit that's been going on during his reign. Perhaps I don't understand Valinor structure and at that time had multiple people in charge which all share the blame...
I don't really like the scapegoating of Draugluin which comes from a lot of people. He holds his fair share of the blame for many of the mistakes of that period, admittedly, but so do many of the other people who were operating in Valinor at the time. Pharzon was the genius behind Valinor's u-turn ridden and hopelessly inconsistent policy toward guilds, whilst Drogian had some of the most bizarre and out-of-sync ideas about what the MUD should be that I've ever heard. No one person could have facilitated the amount of change which occured during that time.
Die KOZ!
I'm going for the record here.
And what was the largest number of comments in a row by one person?
And someone should make some bomb which wipes out about half of anything alive in its area of effect and name it Draugluin.. Then my parallel with Nero would be complete.
If he was, then it's his responsibility. Oh and I actually approve the camo change and I played with both. It makes the assassin plan his attacks much better rather than the HAY LEMME ATTACK HIM MEBBE HE'LL DIE HE WONT KNOW IT WAS ME ANYWAY attitude. And the ability to stay camoed on your victim for hours (with obvious breaks for ep heals) is priceless.
Wasn't Draug in charge when BPs were introduced?
The removal of fade was one of Draugluin's pet changes. His attitudes toward professions always seemed to be 'how can we make this into a party support role?' rather than 'how can we improve this for all playing styles?'. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. I wasn't in Valinor, so of course I can only judge by what he was saying at the time, and the projects he publicly attached himself to.
From my perspective, BPs were mostly a Glaurung thing.
Yeah, I see your point. I mostly remember him for his CD burning software.
Yeah, but the biggest effect Draug had on the MUD was definitely BPs. So obviously he will be remembered for them. I mean not many people remember what Nero's foreign policies were.
I dunno, maybe I should just manufacture my own line of rose-tinted glasses and re-writeable history books.
Aside from battlepoints, I disagree with that. And I don't recall a ton of RPers leaving during the 2-3 years when Draugluin was in charge pre-battlepoints.
Are you kidding? Draugluin publicly ridiculed RP as worthless, and his game-design decisions showed little regard for solo explorers/questers.
That's one of the things that Draugluin was really great at... balancing questers/RPers with PKers. He recognized that a mentality of 'PKers make the game frustrating for RPers, so we must eliminate the PKers so the RPers dont leave' was a huge step backwards. And likewise leaving unchecked PKing of RPers would also be a huge step backwards.
Sadly, all of you guys are correct. Especially Kelos. I remember protecting the beorning scouts from people who were golding there. I remember the mass roleplay events at Dol Amroth.. It was fun and I miss it. But I miss the challenges too.
Trempk, for once I have to agree with you. Indeed the more the merrier. But to have more, you got to give everyone a challenge.
Lol, that's one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said about this game ever. Seriously. The more people that play, the more interesting it is. That's an indisputable fact. It doesn't matter what kind of players they are as long as there is a large enough variety of playing styles available and enough freedom for them to enjoy themselves. Saying that a large part of the player base leaving is a good thing is beyond retarded.
I'll miss ya man. Always loved playing with you!
You cant call it a 'cleansing' and maintain its a good thing if half your targets and clients leave!
Daywalker, everyone talks about how much the mud has fallen in recent years, a lot of people blame BPs.
You somehow call it a cleansing, but wasn't the game much more interesting when people were more dedicated to their roles, their guilds and who they were?
Wasn't the fact that people care about creating good guilds, with good themes much better than the new stuff coming out?
I just think somehow you guys discount how the mud was before, how passionate everyone was about this place, how thematic it was, wars, etc. Now people switch sides, kill whoever and it completely lacks any dedication like before.
I mean, VC has allies that I never see anymore. No one calls for help to defend the tree, or defend Dol Amroth.
As much as you think those types of people leaving cleansed the game, I think it killed its soul.
WoW rots your brain.
And I wasn't saying that people were smarter back in the day. We've all read the guildhall descriptions that were written 10 years ago compared to those that were written more recently.
I also don't believe that most players back then played 'better'.
In fact, I think the top end PKers and power players have actually become better relative to everyone else because the potential for client-side advantages has grown by leaps and bounds, whereas people who muddle around without improving their clients or do not study their mistakes have much less room for improvement.
Speaking of, if someone is into WoW in Shattered Halls Europe, send me a mail :)
Well, Pounder, your post makes sense.. from your own point of view.
Indeed a large potion of skilled questers/RPers quit during BP time. This is however not a loss, but a cleansing. They simply could not handle the heat. They could not handle the change. Look at Spartan for example, he always found a way to adjust to the changes, same for Amearn.
I mean, the mud changes, things change for good or for bad, a major change like this is a very nice kick in the ass of every rotten brain to make them develop further.
The only thing you cant adjust to is the lack of challenge. When the mud goes boring, people just move on to something more interesting and challenging. After all, 12 hours of work daily are boring enough.
Play DoTA! I'll own your asses jajajaja :D
He's still around.
Pounder, I remember Kharash. When we were coding Far Harad he was always the first person to find a new quest and bug it somehow :)
I believe he was the first to find Aiglos (amongst many other uniques). The speed with which he found newly introduced pieces of content (without being warned or told) and worked them out was simply incredible.
This was before the ainur started telling people about significant new content through news posts, think about that guys, they never used to to tell you x or y had been released (or that you should look for a caravan near a or b which may need some help), people would just find it.
Wow, what to say that hasn't already been said... Your name will definatly go down in infamy no matter if you get a legend or not. Either way, enjoy life.
P.S. Play WoW now :P I'll help you level, The Forgoten coast send me a mail my char is Sadren.
Don't confuse bad spelling etc for stupidity. They can both exist without the other.
but then I grew up and started thinking 'Man, noone seemed half as retarded when i was 14! The playerbase was so much smarter back then!'
After seeing Mutalator's mails recently I no longer believe you old farts! The playerbase always consisted of dumbasses for the most part. And at some point in time I was one of those dumbasses!
Erm, I agree on all except the big fish thing. They are medium fish at best in a very sad and small pond. But the ratios of the types of players is completely whack now. What we need is more explicit questers and RP'ers to balance things (we have an overabunance of people who are not specializing in areas and playing just generically like everyone else and we need this to change).
Manni, for the most part I laugh at the incorrectness of your comments, but for once, your comment was so dead on its remarkable. This is what I have been saying for a long time. Daywalker claims that the inferrior players left when it became a PVP arena basically. But actually he is for the most part completely wrong. The skill of the players that were lost were no different than those that stayed. Take a player like Kharash, noone here can even argue he wasn't skilled or one of the top players in the game. The thing was, because he didn't go around and kill everyone to 'show' his superiority, many less people knew about him. This type of player all but disappeared during the BP era. I lost many many good friends during this period and to have them never come back. To say that the BP era was anything but a disaster and wreaked immense damage to the future of the mud would be foolish (why was it during this time that someone set up a very successful second version called TNT?). The biggest damage (but could be tied in with the general public gaining widespread use of the internet) was the general decline in intelligence of the average player in arda. While in its infancy, the towers thrived and began when those using the internet were cutting edge people, mostly well educated and intelligent. It was in this that the towers thrived from, the ainur were much the same as well. These days however, basically any idiot who can click with a mouse can be online and say shit like NOOB and stupid shit. They degrade the towers from its value of being in a non-graphical medium where imagination and intelligence should thrive to something like television in text. Look at the internet culture for more proof. The people who weren't completely addicted and were intelligent have moved on/or are moving on to other things as this stupidity saturation within the towers continues.
I hate you too Tevildo!
Manni makes a good point. But there were people challenging Norre recently, like Tireless. On a much smaller scale, yes, but they were trying.
And Etrius makes a good point too...I actually had great respect for Nasira and Abborre back in those days, even if most of their kills were just trapping, hamstringing and gang-banging everyone they could find.
I guarantee you, if the mud had stayed like that, the lawlessness, it would have dwindled away to nothing but PKers and that's it.
Wow Etrius, how do you really feel about Nasira?
Stop being a hater, Kelos, hatin' on everything. I freakin' hate haters like you. Hater.
Parts of Kelos' argument and parts of Daywalker's argument are both very good. And I think they intersect with an unintentional part Trempk's point.
Back before 2003, a group of several PKers would have been small fish in a big pond and there would've been bigger fish (or a big group of other small fish) that would have come along and challenged them. Now we have less than half as many active characters, probably a larger decrease in the number of active typists, and a still larger decrease in the number of typists who actively RP, PK, or quest. So Ravathir and his friends were big fish in a much smaller pond. The RP/Quester portion of the MUD simply no longer has the activity to support a sustained counterbalance to a sustained, organized group of PKers.
I wouldn't have said there was that much 'skill' in trapping someone at South Undeep with a five man party or waiting to pick off level tens around Rhosgobel. That was the style of playing which battlepoints fostered; a style which was exemplified by talentless wastes of space like Nasira. Even if Norre emerged during this era, I'd say he plays more like someone older.
@ Daywalker
How come being a PK-er means you are awesome, but being a role player means you need to get a life?
Some people would say that a few of you obsessive PKers who stay online 12 hours a day might need to, uhh...get a life.
Shows how much you know, Daywalker.
Well norre, i didn't know you very well, but was about to learn you to know.
I must say, that, when you played with quinn i didn't like you, i didn't like rav either, though i didn't know you were the same guy.
WHen you made Norre, i began to learn you to know, i began to like you, even after i found out who you were, i will miss you because i started to try and pk, and i will miss a good guy to pk with.
I agree that people from herkimer are nice, after you learn them to know.
That was the same with fyng, i don't think i ever got more respect for a player then him, and i miss him as well.
Though i will never miss hurb, i liked his alt tarquin, i considered him as a friend until he started fucking me up with his chars.
Anyway, good luck my friend, i will say friend, and i really hope to see you come back sometime.
To prove myself, Myrddin, the Battlepoints created Norre/Ravathir. They brought Nasira back to life, they created the two REAL poles of Evil and Good. They made a group of people loyal to each other.
The loyalty of the ER at that time was incomparable to anything we have seen on the MUD.
Think outside your skills and stats..
Well for some reason he commented with Dighi, so i replied to Dighi. Freaking idiot that tried to delude himself into thinking that he was any good for being able to kill newbies.
Myrddin I disagree. The Battlepoints got rid of most of the guild idler scum and created skilled players. Why do you all think the mud is all about walking in the woods and enjoying the butterflies?
Why not overpowering each other, overskilling each other? If ainur don't start thinking out of the box and don't start creating challenges for MANY people, the mud will keep going down. Till when? Till the noob roleplayers find something better to do in their life (grow up or get a life).
You can't just get rid of everyone that is fighting or doing what they want. Obviously, none of you have ever studied marketing theories. This mud should be listed as example of a total screw up.
hey, why are you all so grumpy? herkies are gone. about damn time. bring out the fireworks!
Thank fuck, may you all die in a tragic road accident.
Dighi is Delkin.
who's dighi?
this mud is listed as limited PK mud. that makes sense that admin tries to limit PK. with battlepoints, it became a PK mud and like Myrddin said many left because of this.
and am i the only one to notice that he used correct grammer and punctuation?
english is not my native, so i have an excuse.
In case you didn't notice Daywalker, half the MUD left during battlepoint days BECAUSE of rampant PK, not because of PK being oppressed.
I love how the Herks think they are getting speciel treatment from the admin. This have happend loads of time in the past, this isnt any worse then alot of other shit in the past. But i understands that they want to belive that they where so good and dominating and that is why they get nuked/banned. Even idiots like Dighi managed to get himself banned and he still belives he is even skilled. Just look at his QI (if it's still up) i mean if you read what he written there, it is clear he is a idiot. But yeah, Norre and some others was clearly above average, but don't fool yourself, you guys getting nuked have nothing todo with skills.
Bah! I will miss hating you.
There goes antoher one! Take care, have fun outside t2t.
amen, brother!
Newer players have a skewed view of how good players are these days. Back when there were 100 players on at once every night, there were many capable players and pkillers on nearly all of the time and it was that much harder to stand out. He's a good player, but back then guys like Ravathir would have just be fish in the pond, imo.
I actually think he could quit though. I mean, what has he put into the game? What has he worked for other than himself and his crew that is still around to keep him attached? I don't know, probably not much if anything. My guess is that his being restricted to one player and getting used to it will have made it easier for him to quit. The only thing that could keep him around are the friends of his who aren't hard banned and still play. And I'm sure he can easily keep in touch with them without the game. He just needs to find something else to do with his time that is just as fun.
Let us not start the talk about reasons for nukes and cheating:) Its a fine comments thread, lets leave it as it is.
Man, I am amused every time the people nuked for cheating their asses off insist they were nuked for PKing and think of themselves as victims of cruelty and oppression. This isn't directed at you, Norre, btw, you were nuked for loyalty.
Dighi that meant a lot for the comment you left, thank you so much and thanks for all the fun on the mud. You really did own a lot and we did a lot together that we will remember. Xaron you are really a true friend and will always be one just stay cool and own the mud like you always do.
Thanks once again
'Anyone who does not want to see what is lofty in a man looks all the more keenly for what is low in him, and mere foreground; and thus, betrays himself.' -Nietzsche
Well, Brandon, I hope you come back.
And for the record, I agree with Manni and Etrius too.
On a personal level Brandon, we fought against one another for a long time. Came to know and respect one another... Eventually we became allies, raping Mordor together (and watching each others' backs) on our mains, guildmates together on alts, etc...
You're a good player, and a loyal friend.
Take a breather, come back. Manage your political game better by taking heed of Tireless' first suggestion: that understanding is key.
Good luck.
Ravathir,
You were a fearsome enemy and one of the most loyal people I have ever met on The Two Towers. Thank you for the memories and your relentless motivation. It was an honor to play at your side. You will be remembered long after you are gone.
Contrarian individuals will always be butchered by the mob, but rest secure in the fact that you have made a lasting impression to those who matter.
Player-killing on The Two Towers will be eradicated some day and you will be remembered as one of the last great players who adhered to an ancient art.
While we stalked together, I tried to hone a fact into you - their is glory in being the outcast. Their is power and might found in standing against the will of an entire world.
For those of us who knew you, one clear fact shown through - you were unbreakable and merciless; a hardened kill from old reincarnated. You did the Durmanhoth name honor.
Welcome to the hall of legends. You stand in the presence of the greatest individuals who have ever walked Arda.
Cruice is an old woman.
Think I care if you care if I care?
I care
Lol, think I care if you care?
Think I care?
Actually yes because it was intentional. Although, it's just as stupid.
Iz dis r betta trempk?
lol, too bad the word 'right' isn't 'made up' as well. Although all language is 'made up' tbh.
Thanks everyone for the nice comments. I actually like being away from the mud it's a nice breather and it feels really good. Maybe some of you guys should try it sometime, the mud was fun during the battlepoint days or durmanhoth vs BKD war now it's turning into just questing and golding nobody ever PK'S anymore therefore im so happy that im done playing. Have a great time on the mud everyone and don't let osse fuck with you like he did us.
Daywalker, your twisted version of facts will surely convince the occasional audience, but certainly not most of us, already hardened by the 'Mannish' interpretations of truth exposed here and there.
Well seeing as how ainur isn't a real word.. I don't think it matters if it is spelled wrong, because he could be spelling it write and you could be spelling it wrong... Seeing as how it is made up.
Heh, I am not surprised at all. Ever since I started playing this game, the ainur were trying to limit PK and always targeted the people that are active in this direction.
It is sad, it continues and will destroy the mud at a point.
Anyway, I hope it goes faster so all of you asocial guys can open your eyes.
--
Brandon, dude, I remember when you started playing with Hellflame :) You were just a new guy, like any other of us, the good players, was at his start. Even more, your beginning was in a very hard period of changes and you did very well. All of you guys started playing recently and developed to a very good level on the mud. At a point we fought, then we were guildmates, thats how it works.
The most important thing is - you created life, atmosphere, be it anger in one group of people or happiness for others.
All who deny it are blind and as many have said before, soon the mud will be a lifeless place. You will see.
Osse and all of your team, why do you throw away so much work that has been done in the past years? Finally get it inside your thick heads, the MUD is the people that play it!
You lost so MANY people that were the soul of the mud, and more are leaving. You deserve to be forgotten...
This is quite amusing. The first time I saw Hurb use the word 'anui' I thought it was just a typo. But he literally uses it every time he writes anything about ainur. How the hell did he get the spelling so wrong despite having the word thrown at him each time he mudded. Or is it an abbreviation or anything?
Guys, hope I see you back. I'm really sad that I couldn't keep in touch with Hurb, it was very fun to play with/versus him :) *rereads a log* OCT AND HURB YAY!
Anyways, wish you all the best of life guys! Take care.
Beware when you fight with monsters lest you yourself become a monster.
I should be a Mod.
Cry some more.
You forgot a name tireless. but seriously GO FUCK YOUR SELF. If you can't take a little a joke you shouldn't be a mod or an anui. so i repeat prolly for the last time. GO (dot)(dot)(dot) FUCK YOUR SELF
wtf Tireless. I thought you were above petty shit like that. Oh well.
I bet he's having some serious MUD withdrawals right now, going from investing countless hours into something then abruptly getting cut off probably won't sit well.
Tireless, do I have to leave the mud so that you grant me with such a comprehensive analysis?:}
Herkie log detected... auto-rating. Hopefully for the last time ever!
KELOS is a hater? I... I never knew!
Chris Chelios would never use a word 'heart' you fucking asshole. Stop sullying the image of Chris Chelios!
<3 cruice!
Hey Lucky, suck a fart out of my ass.... SKR-HUB
The kid LIVED on the MUD. I bet a hundred fucking dollars he logs in at least once within the next one to the three months, if not maxing a new character. It is kinda like a crack baby still needing the dope after birth.
anyways...
herkie log detected, auto-rating...
1
I really don't know why everyone's getting all excited here. *Every* *single* goodbye log I've ever read has been subsequently overturned when the goodbye-er comes back to play.
That being said, I seem to remember Hellflame being involved in betraying some friends of mine awhile back when AotWU was still around. If that's true, then fuck ya. If not, see you soon.
I have to go erging. Argh.
I was obviously joking, I didn't even read the list, or the log itself, i just copied and pasted.
Seriously, Tireless? Wow.
It wasn't a theft log, as its tag indicated.
Man why was Hurb's brilliant farewall log removed. I rated it 6 and I almost never rate logs!
By: Tireless
Touche, sir. Perhaps I should say 'Few exceptions' ;)
It goes back to the 'Dave's Dad Theory of Large Numbers'.
Goodbye Norre, you are a great friend and I hope to see you around in the future. We had some good times.
Deros
Touche, sir. Perhaps I should say 'Few exceptions' ;)
I agree with what Manni said.. this is a loss to the MID. I don't think we ever interacted, but I admire you for being someone who shook things up a bit.
'If you can refocus your enthusiasm for the MUD towards something productive (like school, sports, or a job) you will excel at those pursuits. Whether you had skill or not is unimportant; if you put that much time towards anything you will be at least above average, no exceptions.'
Like the wise Sheldon said, you cannot train, or excel at suicide, so yes there is exceptions Tireless.
I can't agree with the loyalty bit (See the cause of our most recent conflict).
It's already been said, but I'll reiterate: If you can refocus your enthusiasm for the MUD towards something productive (like school, sports, or a job) you will excel at those pursuits. Whether you had skill or not is unimportant; if you put that much time towards anything you will be at least above average, no exceptions. You have persistence and don't get discouraged, and that is a very valuable career attribute if you can apply it elsewhere.
These next few things I have to say are not very complimentary, but please, try not to read enmity into them. I am doing my best to comment with emotional detachment. People just kissing your ass will never positively affect your situation, and are only useful if you feel you do not need to improve.
First, you judge whether you've done anything wrong by _your_ reading of the rules (or by the reading of the rules of a friend, like Fyng). In every aspect of every society you are bound by someone else's reading of the rules. Get used to it.
Second, you need to talk less. You have gotten heaps better about this, but still need to improve. There really is no case in which it is productive to inform someone that they suck, aside from perhaps if they are claiming they are great. If you regard yourself and your accomplishments with a degree of humility and the actions and judgments of others with a degree of grace I think you will be more successful and people will like you more. ...and if you talk shit poorly people will make fun of you for it, causing it to completely backfire. Don't be a Quiauh.
Third, anger is corrosive. Hatred hurts you more than the targets of your rage. Try to avoid getting angry; it never helps. Ever. Do you think you hurt anyone by calling them ignorant fucks? Mindless angry insults are not very effective. The only time they have a significant impact is when they're against someone who has power over you. Like a boss. And in those situations the only power they have is to hurt you.
You were a challenging enemy. Every time I killed you it pleased me greatly. I do not think you or your ilk were a constructive influence on the MUD so I'm not sad to see you go... but I also wish you the best in whatever you do (as long as it's not here.)
HaTzOrZ. Fuck you.
I haven't been around for the entire history of the mud, but proclaiming yourself part of the 'best 2-man pk team ever' just exemplifies the reasons why so many people disliked you on the mud.
Good luck to you in the future, I mean it...but also good riddance.
Goodbye Norre, it was nice to have an enemy like you... i will miss that...
Lucky,lobo,mordhred. You need a good shrink and some good pills.
Brandon, it's a shame to see you go. You were one of the few people who made the game interesting still. There are so few players left who actually play the game actively, let alone play it well. You did both and you will be missed, even by the people who are trashing you.
Lobo's a psychopath.
no Lobo, not all in that list are herkies. i know some who aint herkies from that list.
Ee, that sucks. Let's try to get you reinstated.
ok, tarkus is a herkie too, i just read his comment...
I just found out that Fyng, Proof, Aurimar, Avirex, Cruice, Zandramas,
Jerf, Dera, Jakar, Winnetou, Hurb, Shanon, Duncan, Draco, Trojan, Tomar,
Thugo, Kavan, Kado, Carath, Amearn, Azkur, Shardik, Josi, Jubal, Balzamon,
Octavian, Smoky, Caenedrin, Zaellyer, Chantress, Casey, Xaron, Hart, Sphen,
Jaber, Laefang, Daywalker, Klardin, Letina, Lomar, Urgnath, Moroso, Panayoti,
Sadren, Korbin, Mute, Delkin, Manni, Bentelbow, Skullman, Calicious are herkies.
I also am doubtful that it is a final farewell, but if it is, good luck. Although I disagreed with some of the things that you did on the game, I enjoyed the personality, energy, and dedication you brought to the game. If you could focus that on something more constructive, I'm sure you will do well. Once again, good luck.
Huvi
tl;dr
I don´t know if you´re actually leaving the mud. I´ve said goodbye a couple times and still I came back to play, but if not, good luck in life. Sometimes people play this game way too much. It happens to me as well. So I think that this may be a nice time for you to rebalance mud/RL.
I´m probably the brazilian that liked you guys the most (I guess its fate...I always like people everybody dislikes, like Quiauh and Smoky). I just can´t dislike someone on a game. I think it´s a place where you shouldn´t put too much feelings, or at least try to avoid getting too adicted.
Unlike most of the players, I always thought of you as a skilled player. I think that in a game like this, skill comes with practice, and I have no doubt that you managed to get a great amount of skill in this mud.
Maybe some other people have reasons to dislike you, but you´ve always been nice to me, even tho we played ´enemies´ roles. I don´t really know how you feel about me. My guess is you probably dislike me, but anyways, I wish you the best.
You sure made yourself known here, and that´s something few can do.
And if you ever come back, well, I´ll see you around. I´ll probably be playing (Actually, I hope not, but I always come back).
Tarkus.
It is a shame to see lou go the way you did man good luck with future progress.
Lucky shut the fuck up.
What most people don't know about the herkies is that if you gave a fuck and wanted to realy get to know them they were cool as hell and quite loyal friends. There to help when you need it, willing to teach a quest that you may not know, help gold, and just about anything you could ask for.
So my simple advice quit the herkie hate bullshit get to know the few that are left by you loose the chance to make some of the best friends you will be able to make
Well propably not a goodbye for all times like it was said but than again despite the fact you had always tons of healing, you did make it more interesting to play. See you soon :), altough i`m not close to like you.
See, if I actually hated you, I would laugh and be like lucky. All I can say is two things: One, see Aginor's comment on your client (erm, I should say whoever you got it from). Two, you chose your own path, and in this case you should have chosen a game that better suits your tendancies. Good riddance, although I unfortunately know its doubtfully a true goodbye.
Just because you use someone elses client and mapper doesn't make you 'one of the greatest'. You sir, were mediocre at best, if I can solo you 3 times you arent even close to great.
Thanks for all the good times we've had. Sucks to see you get kicked from the mud when you had such a great passion for it. Within your short period here you have made a great impact. You definitely made the game interesting and challenging. Although you've made enemies over the years, you've also made a lot of friends who will miss you. Best of luck, brush the haters off man.
-Av.
Haha. One, you really were not the 'best pk team' of all times. Two, Osse was so incredibly lenient with you. If you did all these things you've been doing for the past.. year or two? under Draugluin, you'd be hardbanned as soon as you started. And three, I wonder if anyone here will take my bet that this will be your first but not last goodbye post. Probably not.
Khal, I don't think I ever law reported anyone from Herkimer, and I would have if I was active enough to know anything them. My hardban comment was for your recently departed friend, and if you think I have ever been scared of leaving my GH, just take a look at my typist's prodigious amount of dumbass death logs.
Enjoy your dumbass friends being wiped out like the dipshits they are, fuck-o.
I'm not hardbanned you twat. Brandon, i think that paragraph sums up a lot of the animosity towards you. Lucky stop being ignorant. What exactly are you going to do now since you can't law report him all day? Shit maybe you'll actually leave your guildhall now that it's safe.
Wow, I was naked minus a walking staff and I forgot to get the flag at Tenzek's... I am so jealous of people that remember that stuff.
Shut the fuck up and enjoy the hardban, bitch.
Hey Brandon,
If this is really and truly your committed good-bye to the mud, I'll say this. We started off rather disliking each other, I didn't like who you were when you first started out and the way you acted. We had off and on periods in our relationship, as you well know. You'd kill me, I've come back and kill you, we'd be cool for a couple months and then something would start up again. It's been a couple years now since I started talking to you, and to see the improvement of your typist from the beginning to the end is great. I might of not agreed with the way you handled situations, but you learnt how to deal with shit yourself and after that, it wasn't any of my business anymore and I only let the way we interacted relate to how we were. I'm glad in the end, I on my part, was able to put our past aside and get along. I'm also glad I came down to meet you and everyone else, definetly a good weekend. Like I said, if this is truly your committed good-bye, I wish you the best with being able to put this place behind you and move on. You know where to contact me if you ever want to chat, and I'll be seeing you guys in 2 weeks.
Peace,
Jakar.
Then again. You're probably envious of the entire mud. Seeing how most of us don't die to torches.
That's just jealousy
Good riddance.
Fuck you and your mother.
Oh, and try not to pretend to be your buddy Fyng and make 5 or so bitchass whiny goodbye logs only to come back again.
I wonder if Lobo and Mordhred would still go 'Herkie-log detected. Auto-rating.' :P
But I dont agree you and Fyng are the best 2man-team ever though :P But yeah, prolly one of the ones on the top list. Anyways. Good luck! Live the life.
Bye man. Twas fun playing against/with you.
Didnt know you were Norre, but you posted some pretty cool logs which were very entertaining and created a real buzz around this site which we are all thankful for! You are fairly a loyal guy as far as i remember. Dont take it hard, ainu will always look for the most idiotic reason to nuke someone once they have you on their bad side... Its nothing new:P