Log of the first meeting about the future of RP in Arda. For those interested, please don't post useless comments nor flames. Enjoy the reading
I just want to point out that all the guilds have problem cases and no one should point fingers until their ENTIRE guild is full of people who will take the time to RP and do so well without abusing it to get a cheap kill.
Also, it is not out place to argue a guild's theme, you can mail an ainur but arguing among us will change nothing.
Those guilds who wish to RP regularly should not kill members of the opposing guild without first sending a letter of warning to the other guildmaster explaining why the kill will take place, that way, feelings will be less hurt and there should not be the feelings that rp was abused to kill them.
Just some random musings,
Azmar
Thank you Fimbu, I appreciate the feedback...
Why would a wizard not cast during combat? Well, not being a wizard, I would think it hard to concentrate on forming the words in the correct manner and making the proper signs with my hands while someone is busy jabbing me with swords, bashing me with hammers or slipping a knife between my ribs but I am just a warrior, what do I know of spellcasting.
Bandaging hmm, your right of course but it is a bit of idealism I have :)
Corpselooting in RP combat just seems wrong to me, especially if you didn't kill off the entire other side. I mean, who has time to actually kneel down, undo all the clasps and buckles then make everything fit into their pack during combat.
Nevermind, its coded that way :)
On a side note, referring to the log:
Have you ever seen so many people acting pompous at the SAME TIME before? Reminds me of the Mcouncil!
Good comments Wasach.. I would change a couple of things though.
1. Wizards casting.... Why the hell would a wizard not cast in the middle of a battle?? They can cast whenever they want.
2. Bandaging... Enemies don't have to bandage each other. Don't put someone else out of their misery, but let their friends bandage 'em. If there is one person on a side, and they fall, make a decision. You can't be blamed for bandaging them.
3. Looting corpses... Someone's dignity isn't lost if you loot their corpse. It's no big deal, It's a prize of war, if you will.
4. Stealing... You can't steal from anyone who is in combat, anyway.
3.
bah arda will never be balanced...
there will always be people like korzan who come to play the game and sure..there playing a char but their character consists of a homicidal maniac in control of a bunch of other homicidal maniacs wantonly slaying people...
and like wasach mentioned..your theme is a bunch of horseshit...
if your not a member your a target...bah..bs ..
thats an excuse to kill and spree and blame it on your rp...
dont give us that bullshit, your just there to turn it into a text based cstrike or something...
i can respect sou..hell i have a ton of respect for adun...kicked my ass evertime i fought him and never once abused rp...
cant say that about durms..
hell i even helped kill that old fool durms had for gm awhile back cause he deliberatly tried to use rp to get free kills...
how pathetic...
cou...seems to be pretty much the same thing as sou really...when was the last time you saw one of em sailing around the bay.....
nah i just dont see how you can have 'corsair' guild in a world were most of the boating is limited to skiffs and the odd barge...
ooo avast and belay there amte..im coming aboard...
ahh shite...bail bail its raining and were sinking..
you should definately have some wars with Naog..
get your little row boats out and fire arrows at each other...maybe even throw rocks...
but at least you kinda have a theme that would work..
so yeah...
fra, cou, sou...all kinda kill for a reason with im sure the odd discrepancy...
but even if i dont like them, i respect them.
but i have zero respect for a guild whos cheif purpose is to say screw this im killing all of you just to see how many kills i can get...
yeah sure, keep telling your selves you belong and maybe someone else will believe it...
bah and thats another thing...
what the fuck ever got into the ainu heads that made them decide that being evil gave you rights..
like hell the judge in rivendell is going to convict and elf for murdering some spawm of sauron...
yeah sure...soooo thematic..
if it was a real world..youd freakin run back to mordor and not come out...
hell as far as im concearend...durms and cou should be revoked and sou should be moved into mordor..
hell the whole game is freakin ridiculous
now that im sure ive pissed off ever durm who bothers to read this ' and you can all kiss my ass' im going to go to bed..
and screw you all,
god dosent life suck...
and no im not talking about 2t2...worthless addicts!
ok, future of RP in Arda my thoughts....
Idealy,
Wizards: Cast only at the intiation of RP combat for them. This means, when they show up to the fight and get their first RP-warning, is the initiation of RP combat for them.
Assassins or anyone with
assassination trained: Backstabbs allowed only at the opening of RP-combat.
Headbutts: whenever you can squeeze one in. nobody pays much attention to shaping anyway so fuck it.
Bandaging: yes, indeed. A person with zero hitpoints is going to defend worse than a dead person who raced to revive with full HP then raced back fully equipped and ready to fight more.
This will also reduce ill feelings resulting from needless deaths. This means triggers, for people fighting next to you as well as against you. I would bandage Wyngel or Adunazon and I would hope they would bandage me. I know I sure will be bandaging Thorgal and Klouse.
Hunting: There is no reason to hunt someone when they are leaving RP combat. Why? Because you won, they wont be back until they are healed or they are asking to die because you KNOW they have already wimpied once.
RP-deaths: Someone gave up their characters life in the course of RP, respect that. Dont add insult to injury and loot their corpse. It is a dignity thing, no one likes to have theirs taken.
People not of your Guild in your
party during RP-combat: You are responsible for their conduct, whether your leading the party or not. If you dont agree with someone's conduct during an RP battle dont party with them. Sure we all have friends in other Guilds but that doesn't mean you should all go attack Edoras or Balforth together.
Theft's during RP combat:hmm, this is a tough call. I do not think this should be allowed in RP. While you would want to rob your target of all possible resources...in a fight, your foe would certainly notice you reaching into their money pouch or trying to snatch that vial from their grasp.
Profession RP versus Character RP:
Your RP as a Sheriff is vastly different from your RP as a Son of Ulfang or a Dwarf of BkD or a Knight of Dol Amroth. That is the blatant example of profession-RP vs character-RP. The character you play does not rely on the profession you pick. Saying, I am a thief I am supposed to steal is one thing. Saying I am a thief, I am supposed to attack Dol Amroth is another.
Durmanhoth, I dont think I will ever understand. No offense, you guys kick ass when it comes to killing other players but your RP is definitely lopsided. You claim to not be servants of Sauron but when was the last time one of you legitamently pK'd an FRA, SoU, CoU. You cant have a ceasefire with anyone, you cant ally yourself with anyone. If your not a member your a target, thats your theme, you picked it but it hardly seems like you actually follow it all the way. However, its your Guild you run it how you want too. That is just my observation on the Arda I have witnessed for the last 3 years.
Yet, I digress. It doesn't matter what conditions or treaty points all or even some of the Guilds agree on. It will always end up the way it has now. Someone will be pissed off over some slight, violate the treaty, their GM will ignore it because they dislike the person the violation was against. The bad feelings mount and suddenly, fuck the treaty.
I personally have had enough. You all bitch about the problems with RP in this mud and you and I are the problem. Some of you claim that to RP correctly we are supposed to be pKing each other constantly and attacking each other on sight. That is fucking insane and would ruin this game more completely than anything else. I once saw on the gossiper (forget which Ainur it was) said that perhaps all the pK commands should be removed from the game. Perhaps they should be, perhaps they should be suspended until ER's are brought back.
Personally, I dont give a fuck. You'r all fucked up. Help kill this NPC, help me kill that player, can I borrow that weapon so that I can kill whatever, fucking bunch a bitches that all of us are. Really fucking pathetic. We took this world that Melkor coded for free and turned it into trigger xxx todo kill xxx because thats my RP. Next time you see xxx you will do xxx because thats your RP. Tolkien probably is spinning in his grave and planning on how best to haunt Melkor and its our fault.
Ok, I was wrong. Durmanhoth are no longer Sauron's private band of assassins, but they were once, and they have ties to Sauron. (Hell, most of them are or try to be Shadowspawn of Mordor anyway.)
As for your comments about roleplaying... since this is a Tolkien-based MUD, you would therefore be roleplaying in the environment of Tolkien, and from that we may draw the conclusion that the role you play should be well-suited to Tolkien.
Your definition was more general. Mine is case-specific, to The Two Towers MUD.
I think that where most of Arda places the Durmanhoth is allied with SoU and other 'evil' guilds. Dont try to explain how the Durms dont have an alliance with CoU or SoU or FRA or blah blah Guild. Look at how many logs are on this website that are made up of a Durm and an SoU or CoU killing a person or persons from the 'good' Guilds. How often do Durms come running to Balforth when SoU are defending him.
What your Guild does and how it conducts itself is your business. However thats how you appear to the rest of Arda. Durmanhoth are assassins but they do appear to be assassins that work for the evil servant of sauron guilds of arda...but that is just my interpretation. I know that members of evil Guilds get contracted but you never see a Durm killing a Son, atleast not on the log page.
To RP out of combat .. well .. What is that really ?? .. I mean .. RP is just playing a role .. Like playing your charecter like you want him to be .. Role Play does not have to meen play like it is written in the books.
Personally I find Playability far more important that what is written in any book. I meen .. this is a game .. it is suposed to be fun. And realism should really be ignored .. cause that is what really destroys a game. A realistic game can never be fun .. It's just plain old boring life.
And PLEASE stop calling the Durmanhoth for 'Sauron's elite assassins' .. Cause we do not have ANY ties with Sauron what so ever .. I know the old and first assassins were trained by Sauron .. But a slick old killer named Mutalator formed the group we are today .. A group of silent assassins that will kill anyone .. even Sauron if he has a Contract .. And we answer only to our own internal leader .. and of cause Eru himself.
Raqtor - The white
If durmanhoth sends a representative I guess we'll have to have lessons with Mizrahi first ;)
Example of roleplay out of combat: Klouse
His role play is that he thinks he is a god... :p
As we all know, there must always be a compromise between roleplay and playability.
Let's take hunt. It's not the most thematic of abilities out there, in fact, *off the top of my head* the only one worse is fade. Yet, it's a shining example of the compromise between roleplay and playability. If it were removed outright, half the T2T playerbase would leave.
There are a lot of things that don't really fit.
In the midst of this, guilds really doing what they should would hardly fit either. Think about it. Everyone would die. People didn't really run away from battles that much, you know? A few surivors here, some more there - they'll die soon enough. The average level of guildmembers in guilds that participated regularly in RP combat would plummet, fast.
The RP treaties are/were a _compromise_ between true roleplay and playability, so that those players who _can't_ make 10k+ an hour and _don't_ have maxed bank accounts can have _fun_. Which is what games are for, right? Fun?
And Tarn: Durmanhoth roleplays, I can agree there, but they also have trouble in a way that was pointed out in this log: I've never seen a Durmanhoth roleplaying out of combat. Sauron's elite assassins kill people, yeah, but they don't talk like you do IRL. They don't act like you do IRL.
Having said that, I would be happy for you to point out an example of where Durmanhoth has roleplayed out of combat. All I'm saying is I've never seen it happen.
- Ogenheart
Trempk, did you even read my post? That's not what I said at all. The trick is to find a happy balance of the two, as more people whine and more stupid rules are imposed a wedge is driven between the killers and the roleplayers, we can all work together to find the balance we used to have and roleplaying will flourish, it's just going to take effort on both parts.
Also, Tarn the Durmanhoth do not roleplay, unless there are 'gangsta rappers' in tolkien's work I'm not aware of. You do however follow your guilds theme and you do it well, it's easy to confuse the two.
Alright look at it this way, you think we are bad for the mud? You think the mud would be better off without our kind. You're wrong. The mud needs us. Just like light needs darkness to shine, this mud needs killing in its core. You may not like it. But if it wasn't for us the MUD WOULD HAVE NO CHALLENGE! the mud would get boring without that fear we invoke. Like light and darkness the mud needs us and will never berid of us. There will always be that one person who needs to kill to drive that fear into your heart. RP is awesome but in all so is killing. Try to make both them work instead of fighting it. You may find the answer.
The Storm.
Durmanhoth roleplays. We kill people. We complete contracts and kill our enemies that boldy (though stupidly) attack us. If you roleplay at all times, you would be attacking people onsight. If your a guard of edoras and you see some evil sauron dude with a big eye on his forehead your not going to say, hey dude, come to edoras so we can rp fight! your going to say die fiend and headbutt him. And then kill him.
Yeah, and people who don't play the game mostly for killing people should be banned from it.
Reading this log, I see the same bullshit 'moral' guilds spew that makes roleplaying so hard these days, Nichodemus said he wants things to revert back to the 'old' days and that is an excellent idea, heres how you do it. Stop whining. I remember when hunt in RP battles was common place, If me and Calain caught you killing Edoras citizens, you would die. RP in Arda has been ruined by tame guildmasters and whiny guildmembers who want everything without any risk whatsoever. Roleplaying is not subject to your small, close-minded definitions, it can take many shapes and forms and what YOU need to do is embrace them and learn to adapt, more rules and guidelines for RP is just going to suck the fun right out of it and the 'powerplayer revolution' will continue.
My 2 cents,
--Yun
Wizard of the past.
I wasn't even invited. I guess no one cares about the few roleplaying clans that are out there.
I missed the meeting :(
*growl*
hmm
I said that cause I wouldnt be surprised to find several gangbang partys waiting just outside Edoras ;), and I was recieving tells reporting certain activity near Edoras if you know what I mean :P (better safe than sorry)
'You say: Before everyone goes, leaves or drinks, please be carefull with
oportunists outside, specialy Valacircans and Knights'
That is one big reason why RP would deteriorate, at least in my limited mind's opinion.
I think the thoughts are good, sorry I missed the meeting, I had some things to bring up but I guess they can wait.
Woden